These are the words of an Anonymous/Wikileaks supporter attempting to prove that Wikileaks hasn’t already gotten people killed.
R – If it was bullshit, then why do we now see new civil wars in Libya, Syria, and Yemen? Why were 1,300 people killed in Kenya? Why were there bloody and still unresolved revolutions in Egypt and Tunisia? Why would the Taliban openly and repeatedly threaten to kill any and all Afghan’s named within the stolen Manning Documents?
R – If it were nonsense, then for what other reason would there be for classifying such documents containing the names of people working with and for US intelligence agencies? Why is Wikileaks demanding transparency, yet offering none about itself in return? Why would Anonymous, whose very name is synonymous with secrecy, be demanding such transparency from others?
R – Leaking classified information is the exact same thing as stealing it. See Robert Hanssen, Walker-Whitworth, and Jonathan Pollard, among many others. Yeah that last one stings, doesn’t it? If Manning is a hero, then what is Pollard?
R – Nobody was “misled” into Iraq, by the intelligence communities of the west. There were twenty-three separate reasons documented for the removal of Saddam Hussein from power. All remain as valid today as they were then. Unless, of course, it is the position of Wikileaks and the Anonymous collective that Saddam Hussein should have remained in power and massacring Iraqi’s?
R – Admiral Mike Mullen, Secretary of Defense (at the time) Robert Gates, and Pentagon Press Secretary Geoff Morrell all stated otherwise quite bluntly and quite often. Official statements from the Taliban themselves make it very clear that they intend to seek vengeance upon any Afghans named in those stolen documents. Julian Assange himself has some interesting statements on the subject. Five Humans Rights organizations expressed concern for the safety of people named in those documents. Reporters Without Borders said it was highly dangerous and incredibly irresponsible of Wikileaks to release those documents, particularly when Afghans were named. Are we to believe that Anonymous, who hacked an epileptic website to show flashing pictures and stole the credit and account information of hundreds of millions of Sony, PayPal, and other companies customers, suddenly knows better then those five human rights groups and Reporters Without Borders?
R – Really? no one would read them then? Then why do people still buy new books of recently discovered or unclassified World War Two and Cold War history? It makes sense that the Anonymous collective would think such histories will never be read, because it strongly appears that no one in Anonymous has ever read any history…
R – Not false at all. Julian Assange and Wikileaks acted as the fence of stolen US government property. That is participation in the eyes of the law in almost every nation on the planet.
R – It’s almost impossible to read that as anything other then a defense of al-Qaeda and the Taliban by Anonymous. Considering that former Anonymous leader Sabu, now on the run, used the Hamas flag as his Twitter avatar, this can only lend still more credence to the idea that Anonymous supports violent Islamic terrorism.
R – Fascinating indeed. But best served long after the threat to the lives of the named participants has passed.
R – That would be Joshua Foust you’re talking about there. I’ll be the first to admit that I disagree with many of Joshua’s opinions on the subject, but I do not doubt his bias’s or his credibility on these subjects, he’s hardly a cheerleader for all US policies. Of course, since Anonymous collectively doesn’t read (tl:dr), it shouldn’t be surprising that Anonymous doesn’t recognize who Joshua Foust is and know what he’s about when he speaks for himself.
R – I agree that it’s a positive for the US government to increase its own information security (we are involved in a world war, after all). But I don’t see how this fits with the Anonymous/Wikileaks demands for more transparency, as anything other then yet another example of the rampant hypocrisy of Anonymous/Wikileaks.
R – Perhaps in the interest of transparency I’ll get somebody who has stolen it using an account stolen from a major credit card company, to give me a copy of Julian Assange’s new book…Following the Wikileaks model I should then copy and release that entire book, for free, on the web, after selective and suitable editing and editorializing, of course…
R – I note the apparent schism’s and fractures developing within the Anonymous collective as individual members attempt to break away or to lead the group into a more socially positive and less criminal role, and while I salute the attempt (with a suspicious eye), it’s much too late for the Anonymous brand name itself. Too much damage has been done, too many people have been hurt in too many ways, for far too long. There is a price to be paid for causing that much damage to so very many…
First six comments all from frothing Paulbots. The zeppelin is still shot down and it’ll never get up again, they just haven’t noticed yet. Clicking their nics reveals three are open 9/11 troofers, and at least two are open Jew haters. Imagine that…
My view is this: When Israel harms Palestinian civilians, they are in the wrong. When Palestine harms Israeli civilians, they are in the wrong.
R – Hamas (and friends) goes out of its way to use Palestinian and other innocent civilians as human shields. Hamas (and friends) intentionally target Israeli civilians, and Jews world wide.
It’s an issue between the Governments that ends up hurting the civilians of both nations FAR MORE than each other’s governments, thus I think the whole thing is wrong.
R – Hamas isn’t just at war with the Israeli government, nor is HizbAllah. They are at war with the idea of Jews being in Israel. They are at war with the very existence of Israel. Maybe it’s your search for moral equivalency that is wrong?
I would hope that if you asked Israeli civilians if Palestine should have a right to rule themselves and their land WITHOUT HARMING ISRAELIS, then they would agree, and likewise the other way ’round.
R – It’s been asked. The answer remains the same.
It’s NOT an issue of who is right and who is wrong
R – Yes, it very much is a question of right and wrong.
…it’s an issue of recognizing that nobody exists in a vaccuum – If I kill you, your brother will try to kill me, and when I die, my brother will try to kill him, etc…it is a vicious cycle that leads us nowhere but to early graves.
R – If you kill me? Heh ok…what if I kill you in the middle of your attempt? Should I then expect your brother as well?
The Israeli people are fed up with their government as well – they should not be the enemies of the Palestinian people.
R – I might be wrong, but my understanding is that the current upset with the Israeli government is over housing, or the lack of it. Something to do with construction freezes perhaps? Demonstrating about it in front of the Israeli government and media isn’t going to stop the Palestinians from being the enemies of Israel or Jews.
But I am sure you see how if you know someone who was caught in the crossfire, you are much more likely to join up with (or at least support) the side that is offering you protection…even if you disagree with them on many issues.
R – I do know more then a few Israeli’s, both in RL and through the Internet. I fail to see how that might be relevant to the rightness and wrongness of what we see on Israels borders. One side wants peace and has repeatedly sacrificed land in seeking that peace. The other side wants an ethnic cleansing and will not negotiate beyond that point. Pun intended, this is not supposed to be rocket science.
It is the same idea as what happened on 9/11 – thousands of American factions were fed up with Washington’s politics, but when we were attacked (by whomever did it, I don’t want to get into THAT debate) they rallied together to support the Government whom they felt was defending all of their interests.
R – Certain American factions did not rally to support the government or the nation at that time, or ever. What debate over who “did” 9-11? There is no fucking debate over that. Their leader just got double tapped in the head for it. He won’t be ordering or funding any more such operations.
Regarding Anonymous – I support about 95% of what they do, and I thoroughly renounce the 5% that I don’t support, and will do what I can to make sure that the 5% is eliminated from future actions.
R – Your numbers are off considerably. Feel free to pick a single Anonymous “action” that has worked out without a lot of people getting hurt, financially in the US/EU, in some cases physically in certain third world nations (I’ll give you a head start – Hal Turner raids). You were provided a link to a Sheriffs investigation case file stolen and released by Anonymous, revealing the name and photos of a teenage female victim of a stalker. Anonymous destroyed that investigation and exposed that girl, will you protect her now? Will any Anonymous step up in her defense?
It has been said that Anonymous is not an organization – it’s a collection of individuals who support whatever actions they feel are worthy of supporting.
R – …and have a motto, a wealth of power symbols, and most of all, a tiered leadership group that very obviously wields considerable power. Oh wait, I think the courts will recognize all that self-generated propaganda as evidence for a bunch of RICO indictments. It has nothing to do with what has been said about Anonymous by Anonymous, and everything about what has been done in Anonymous’s name by Anonymous and friends.
I agree with this assessment, and I love the idea, however, there are some serious problems that this poses – first and foremost, that it is all too easy for a third party who does not like Anonymous (Whether a government, collection of governments, corporation, collection of corperations, other internet organizations, or even just some random nutjobs) to pull a Reichstag on them – which is to say, do something heinous and blame it on Anonymous.
R – Your “third” party is already inside and likes Anonymous just fine. It’s been there since the day Anonymous was born and its not likely to take kindly to your threat to remove it from its nest…or hive as the case may be…
The Government, as an example could say “as a result of releasing police data, the 10,000 man child slavery group that murders handicapped black women found out our informant so every death from now on is their fault” or something like that.
R – You cannot be serious. This government wears shoes without laces for a good reason…
I support the idea of Anonymous, and I support their ideals, but SOMETHING must be done to distance it from the unnecessary havoc caused “in its name”.
R – It’s way too late for that. The very name is already tainted to hundreds of millions world wide. The PR has been horrible…since the very beginning.
Please start using Twitlonger so that when I’m gone for 10 minutes I don’t come back to 25 messages that are all half-statements because of this fucking 140 character limit – whomever you’re talking to…We’ve been arguing for two hours and change.
R – Twitter = ADD blogging. How about I bring you back to my bloglet and show you my chainsaw collection?
“Tallha is the founder, editor and primary author of The War Journal. He was born and raised in the United Kingdom to Iraqi parents and is a graduate of the Department of War Studies, King’s College London.”
R – Graduate of the Department of War Studies, King’s College London? And he doesn’t know the difference between the Byzantine (Eastern Roman) Empire and the Roman Empire? Or that the Byzantine Empire survived another eight centuries after that “defeat”? I’ve got a more then a few other screenshots of Abdul Razaq showing that he’s little more then yet another poorly educated dishonorable foul mouthed hater of Jews and women. I may save them for future reference. IE, to throw in the faces of those Western anti-Zionists who insist that their hatred of Israel has nothing to do with Jews.
Ali Abunimah is
“co-founder of the ElectronicIntifada, author of One Country: A Bold-Proposal to End the Israeli-Palestinian Impasse. Opinions are mine alone.”
R – So apparently the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution never happened in China? Or was that somehow the US’s fault? How many US troops did China use to invade and occupy Tibet?
R – All those Stalin post-war era Soviet mass population re-locations were voluntary and all Soviet citizens were just peachy keen with the plan? And that’s because of the US? The Soviets killed more Afghan civilians intentionally in just the first two years they were in Afghanistan, then the US has accidentally killed in eleven years. Can I mention that not a single US soldier was present at the destruction of Grozny 1994-95, 1996, and 1999? Not one.
R – The Killing Fields of Cambodia was the US’s fault too? US troops left South Vietnam in 1973. The Killing Fields took place from 1975 to 1979 with no US troops anywhere in sight (hello, Jimmy Carter?).
R – The Iran-Iraq War. Millions of dead, the War of the Cities – trading long range heavy rocket fire at each others population centers, children used as massed human wave suicide minesweepers. Nope, not the US’s fault, any of it. This one should be a real sore spot for Tallha up top, he’s got a real hate on for Shia, second only to his hatred of Jews. This in spite of the fact that Shia make up at least one third of the population of his homeland.
R – In theory both of these two people mentioned in this post are supposed to be educated. In reality they should be an embarrassment not just to their places of education, but to their nations, religion, political allies (on the Left and Right), peoples, families, and themselves. And they wonder why they keep losing every single war that they start…even against each other…